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Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers

To: "'Xylo-SDR Discussion'" <xylo-sdr@lists.ae5k.us>
Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers
From: "Eric Ellison" <ecellison@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:17:33 -0500
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Addendum

Since the motherboard has not been finalized, I suggest we extend it beyond
the 4'th connector to handle the power inputs as described, also mount a 4
pin molex facing the inside of the enclosure for powering anything we might
design for the remainder of the left side of the enclosure.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us [mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
On Behalf Of Eric Ellison
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:02 AM
To: 'Xylo-SDR Discussion'
Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers

Phil

Yep, we are going to at least have to do 'minor' surgery on any power supply
we choose, so we should be able to modify or re-connect one of the 4 pin
molex connectors to carry the -12.

If we ONLY need the three voltages and ground, then let's go with the 4 pin
molex, mounted on the MB and protruding through the rear panel. The only
problem might be the spacers, however the spacers do not have to be too
long. Neither the spacers or final enclosure length have been defined, which
we should do soon. If we 'oversize' the hole in the rear panel a bit. We
should also be able to mount some LED indicators right beside the molex
connector which I think Phil mentioned as a 'like to have' and would
eliminate the need to run wires for LEDS running to the front panel. A
switch and fuse in this area wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Whether we use a pc supply or not, at least the standard, easily obtainable
molex is available for powers.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us [mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
On Behalf Of Phil Harman
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:58 AM
To: Xylo-SDR Discussion
Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers

All,

Sorry for the lack of any replies recently - my mail box filled up and I 
lost a few days emails.

PC PSU's do need a minimum load on one rail. On my 13.8v 20A  modified PC 
PSU I added a 100 ohms across the output. I'm not sure what the static load 
with just say the FPGA board will be but that may be enough off the 5V rail 
to load it.  Making them start is just a matter of shorting two pins 
together.

I like Phil's idea of putting a 4 pin Molex connector on the rear of the 
mother board.  With it poking through the rear panel we can then connect to 
a PC  PSU. We may need to use  non standard wiring since I don't see 
the -12v on the 4 pin plugs.

Phil....


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Ellison" <ecellison@comcast.net>
To: "'Xylo-SDR Discussion'" <xylo-sdr@lists.ae5k.us>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers


> Phil
>
> Sorry we missed you on Teamspeak tonight! Great session and I botched the
> Audio. I'll back up the source file before I try this again!
>
> Thanks also for your project plan. As a team, this is a great project! I
> know that we can do it! You 'called the ball' in the first sentence, is 
> that
> this is modular in the entire plan so that the 'product' in the end could 
> be
> as simple as supplying a 'neat enclosure' to the general public, to
> combining 'experiments' that we do and enclosing it in the same enclosure 
> as
> a different project/product. I guess you could tell from my comments, that

> I
> am rooting for you/us with your SDR!
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yep, it has been my sad experience that computer power supplies do need a
> minimum load to start, and I don't know what that is?  Also they need a
> 'cold contact' to firmware to turn them on. So we are going to have to
> figgre that out. They are available in quantity at any landfill so 
> shouldn't
> cost much. If you got really sharp eyes, you can catch them at the end of
> any driveway on garbage day!
>
> I think we only really need the +/- 12, +5 and ground.
>
> Yes, I think a pass through to the back panel, using a common molex 4 pin
> connector should work..
>
> Let's ask Phil - VK6APH, "If Phil likes it everybody likes it!"
>
>
> Eric
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us 
> [mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
> On Behalf Of Philip Covington
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:33 PM
> To: Xylo-SDR Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers
>
> Phil, eric, all
>
> Don't PC power supplies require some minimal load on each line?  And
> if so, how much? How are they for noise and ripple?   It would be nice
> to use them since they are cheap compared to the alternative...
>
> Would you use the ATX style supply and connector or the older PC style?
>
> Maybe if we went with the motherboard mounted on stand-offs to the
> back panel, we could arrange for the power connector to be soldered on
> the bottom side of the motherboard... and the stand-off spacing could
> be adjusted to allow the connector to pass through an opening in the
> back panel... kind of like the front panel component idea?
>
> 73 de Phil N8VB
>
> On 1/16/06, Phil Harman <pvharman@arach.net.au> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> At work I've built a number of commercial projects built around PC power
>> supplies.  They give +/-12/5/3.3v etc at high currents and are very low
> cost
>> and very small.  For  9-15v input you can get  DC to DC PC power supplies
>> with the same voltages from Taiwan that are again small, low cost and
> highly
>> efficient.
>>
>> If we base our rear panel power connector on PC power sockets then we 
>> have
>> 1000's of potential power supplies to choose from.  I had one made
> specially
>> for me in Taiwan recently and it has low EMC and not much more expensive
>> than an off the shelf unit.
>>
>> For shack use they come free from junked PC's!   My 100w PA uses one that
> I
>> rewound the transformer to give 13.5v @ 20A and it's been working for
> years.
>>
>> Phil...VK6APH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eric Ellison" <ecellison@comcast.net>
>> To: "'Xylo-SDR Discussion'" <xylo-sdr@lists.ae5k.us>
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers
>>
>>
>> > Guys
>> >
>> > Thanks for all the comments re power.
>> >
>> > I am in favor of single 11-14 volt input to the back of the radio.
>> >
>> > However, I do realize that, due to heat, noise, etc. this might not be
>> > do-able.
>> >
>> > Possibly an external computer power supply? I think all the voltages we
>> > might need are present except for perhaps the - voltage.
>> >
>> > There are quite a few DC-DC converters available, in chip-dip,
> fractional
>> > brick etc, but I have not Googled much.
>> >
>> > Eric
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us
>> > [mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
>> > On Behalf Of Ahti Aintila
>> > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:22 AM
>> > To: Xylo-SDR Discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers
>> >
>> > Due to the international electrical safety and electromagnetic
>> > compatibility regulations (UL, UR, CE, FCC, etc.) I prefer 13.8 V DC 
>> > and
>> > a separate UL/CE approved power supply for the 100 - 240 V, 50 - 60 Hz
>> > wall outlet connections. Only very quiet switching power supplies are
>> > acceptable, otherwise use bulky linear regulated equipment.
>> >
>> > Be extremely careful with shielding and filtering, if you have to use
>> > switching regulators inside the box. Leon is right, generating the low
>> > voltage logic power directly with linear regulators from 13.8 V DC
>> > certainly will heat up the small box too much.
>> >
>> > 73, Ahti OH2RZ
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "KD5NWA" <kd5nwa@cox.net>
>> > To: "Xylo-SDR Discussion" <xylo-sdr@lists.ae5k.us>
>> > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:15 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] RFC - Powers
>> >
>> >
>> > +5V, +- 13.8V
>> >
>> > Three scenarios, #1 is the most practical,  when
>> > you try to do too many things it cost too much.
>> >
>> > Scenario 1
>> >
>> > Input power source is either 13.8V or 110V-220V
>> > power cord, using a switcher to generate all power.
>> >
>> > The +5 at 5 to 8 amps, logic power, can be used
>> > in a card when 3.3V is required.
>> > The +13.8 2 to 3 amps used with local regulation
>> > for op-amps. Raw power for a modest amplifier.
>> > The -13.8 at .5A or less, very little power
>> > needed, used mostly with op-amps that use +-
>> > power, local regulated to a lower voltage for noise consideration.
>> >
>> > Scenario 2
>> >
>> > +13.8 is the input power source, desire to have
>> > fairly high power out from an amplifier.
>> >
>> > The +5 at 5 to 10 amps, logic power, can be used
>> > in a card when 3.3V is required.
>> > The +13.8 5 to 10 amps used with local regulation
>> > for op-amps. Raw power for a amplifier.
>> > The -13.8 at .5A or less, is derived from the
>> > +13.8, very little power needed, used mostly with
>> > op-amps that use +- power, local regulated to a
>> > lower voltage for noise consideration.
>> >
>> > Scenario 3
>> >
>> > Power supplied by wall outlet (110V-220V) using a switching power
>> > supply.
>> >
>> > High fidelity audio modes desired, running RF final at 28Volts.
>> >
>> > The +5 at 5 to 10 amps, logic power, can be used
>> > in a card when 3.3V is required.
>> > The +13.8 5 amps. Used to power op-amps with
>> > local regulation, raw power for power amplifier.
>> > The -13.8 at 5 amps ,  very little power needed,
>> > used for op-amps that use +- power, local
>> > regulated to a lower voltage for noise
>> > consideration. Used for power output stage to run
>> > on 28V for higher efficiency, better quality RF in voice modes.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
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