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Re: [Xylo-SDR] Teamspeak FPGA discussion - Have we paintedourselvesinto a corner? Boxed ourselves in?
Edson et.al
Yes, that has come out in discussion, as well as mfg costs, and is it's
deathknell.
I did consider and do a lot of searching on almost all other 'off the shelf'
busses (actually passive backplanes) including Memory busses/connectors,
Mini-PCI, PCI-X, PC-104, 22/44 etc.
As Helmut pointed out, most of the new PCI specifications are not quite "Off
the shelf" friendly $.
Recap & Philosophy:
As a small group anything we don't have to design or manufacture is a HUGE
benefit. Basically it is my feeling it defines the success or failure of
this project.
An example:
I mentored Tony - KB9YIG's and my, small Delta-44 breakout board kit. This
was a pretty simple low parts count product. I had about $1500 dollars and
many hours extended for months. Pricing was a nightmare, shipping worldwide
was a nightmare, parts procurement, recovering costs was a nightmare (I
didn't). I lucked out and JUST sold out. But I have also had requests for
additional kits which are not economical to produce.
What we are talking about here is not a 'one shot' deal. Therefore when I
see a 4 slot passive backplane for 56 dollars, that can be purchased in one
quantity, which can be dropped into almost any PC enclosure -> IT WORKS.
Designing and building our own backplane, gives us control of the design,
but it also gives us high expense and nightmare of small production
supply-demand problems. None the least of which is someone to upfront the $,
or get into a periodic limited group purchase, or turn it into a for profit
product.
We REALLY only want to be designing and producing our feature boards, and
even then leveraging the single FPGA Board.
My initial thought was to bolt the Xylo/Saxo onto a board, and let Jean do
the heavy lifting.
The buss and enclosure we have designed WILL work! It just has some really
'tight' design problems, none the least of which is the option for a high
speed intra board buss. I am also having doubts that there will be enough
space in 100 mm for all the connectors required for the phil-bill board, but
that is another discussion.
Thanks
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us [mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
On Behalf Of Edson Pereira
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:53 AM
To: Xylo-SDR Discussion
Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] Teamspeak FPGA discussion - Have we
paintedourselvesinto a corner? Boxed ourselves in?
Hi Eric,
Ok.
One disadvantage I see with the PCI connector is the need for golden
contacts on the PCBs. It would be easier for the experimenter to use a
male-female connector pair. For small card amounts, it is quite
expensive to have the contacts plated.
73,
-- Edson
Eric Ellison wrote:
>Edson
>
>Good to see you again. Well the PCI buss specification is not being
>considered, just the connectors, and the traces connecting the connectors
on
>an inexpensive riser board.
>
>Eric
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us
[mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
>On Behalf Of Edson Pereira
>Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:50 PM
>To: Xylo-SDR Discussion
>Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] Teamspeak FPGA discussion - Have we
>paintedourselvesinto a corner? Boxed ourselves in?
>
>
>
>Eric,
>
>The following link may shade some light:
>
>http://members.datafast.net.au/dft0802/specs.htm
>
>If I may ask, why is the PCI bus being considered?
>
>73,
>
>-- Edson
>
>
>Eric Ellison wrote:
>
>
>
>>Steve
>>
>>Everyone's 2 cents is of value. That's why the Reflector. In casual
>>conversations with Gerald that enclosure (no matter what bus config) will
>>end up being pretty expensive. I have gurgled cases till I am blue in the
>>face, but have learned a lot! An ATX computer enclosure or Mini-ITX
>>enclosure would be on par with SDR-100 enclosure costwise. Bene here is
>>
>>
>that
>
>
>>it has powersupply, switches, indicators, mounts and other goodies, we are
>>going to have to buy separately.
>>
>>Googling PCI stuff is like searching for all references to God in the
>>
>>
>bible.
>
>
>>All I want to know at this point is:
>>
>>Is the PCI physical connection buss indeed a parallel buss with all pins
>>connected like the s-100 or EuroBuss? I think I'm going to have to go pop
>>the passive backplane out of a Dell Optiplex 150 on Monday, and Ring it
>>
>>
>out!
>
>
>>I know that the PCI bus does have dedicated 5V (and newer standard 5 & 3.3
>>V)lines to each card, as well as other powers. If I remember correctly the
>>
>>
>4
>
>
>>card riser in the Dell 150 has just a LED on it so ringing it out should
be
>>simple. I'll also e-mail the mfgr of the link I posted and ask this stupid
>>question. Also how many insertions the slot connectors are good for.
>>
>>Someone might dummy up a PCI card with some IC's connected and request a
>>quote from a PCB mfgr, to verify Cecil's claim of much greater expense for
>>an edge card connector. Someone might check the parts cost on Jean's
Dragon
>>board and estimate 50% profit to find the cost of the board. Perhaps
Phil_H
>>can check with his mfgr for a rough estimate on a 4 layer PCI Buss card of
>>say 100 cm area.
>>
>>Dunno? I do know that before we plunk down bux for our design, we want to
>>maximize what we can do with each individual board, for the $ we spend.
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us
>>
>>
>[mailto:xylo-sdr-bounces@lists.ae5k.us]
>
>
>>On Behalf Of Steve Nance
>>Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:42 PM
>>To: 'Xylo-SDR Discussion'
>>Subject: Re: [Xylo-SDR] Teamspeak FPGA discussion - Have we
>>paintedourselvesinto a corner? Boxed ourselves in?
>>
>>Maybe it's time to re-think this enclosure business one more time.
>>
>>How about an SDR-1000 split type case with a MB/bus of whatever design in
>>the bottom with the cards standing vertically. Card orientation and guides
>>to be worked out. The main advantage of this design is you can get to the
>>cards to work on them without having to pull the front panel. Also, there
>>
>>
>is
>
>
>>a good bit of room for power supplies, oscillator(s), etc. Font/rear
panels
>>could be group buy or roll-ur-own
>>
>>I never have been crazy about the Euro Card closed case concept. Something
>>like this makes more sense to me.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents worth.
>>
>>
>>73,
>>Steve - K5FR
>>
>>
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